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Damage Sources (DS) vs. Damage Riders (DR)[edit | edit source]
A damage source is an attack or other effect that directly deals damage to one or more targets. Examples include striking a target with a weapon, many spells, or thrown items such as an Alchemist's Fire. Damage sources usually require the use of an action (e.g. throwing an object such as a grenade), bonus action (e.g. making an attack with your offhand weapon while dual wielding) or reaction (e.g. the spell).
A damage rider is something which adds to the damage dealt by a source. A rider cannot deal its damage independently - there must be an applicable damage source for it to "ride". Examples of damage riders include the coatings applied to weapons providing additional damage to a weapon attack, a 6th level applying their elemental affinity to a spell of the appropriate damage type, or a raging adding bonus rage damage to their weapon attacks. Many damage riders are gained from passive features or other kinds of buffs. Any eligible damage riders from a damaging effect will be applied to a damage source which is a part of that damaging effect.
spell adding damage to the damage from a Warlock's or weapon attacks,
Damage Riders treated as Damage Sources (DRS)[edit | edit source]
There are some damage riders which defy the typical trends described above. They still must "ride along" with a damage source in order to be applied, but when the damage is calculated they are treated as damage sources instead of damage riders. This means that these "damage riders which are treated as damage sources" can then cause normal damage riders to be applied once again as part of the same ability (e.g. attack or spell) which caused the damage.
Nearly all DRS effects are treated like normal Damage Riders when playing on Honour mode, making much of the following information irrelevant for those players.
Example Calculation[edit | edit source]
A character with 20 Strength, the Tavern Brawler Feat, , and the Ring of Flinging uses the
Lightning Jabber to make a thrown weapon attack against a target which is affected by .
Damage Sources (DS):
- Thrown weapon attack using the
Lightning Jabber applies 1d6 (damage die) + 1 (weapon enchantment) + 5 (Strength modifier) piercing damage
Damage Riders (DR):
- add +1 Lightning Damage to each damage source
- The
Ring of Flinging adds 1d4 damage which is of the same type as the weapon used (piercing in this example) to each damage source.
- adds 1d6 necrotic damage to each damage source.
- Tavern Brawler adds the character's Strength modifier to thrown weapon attacks an additional time
Damage Riders treated as Damage Sources (DRS):
- The additional 1d4 damage from
Lightning Jabber's passive, Throwing: Lightning Damage, is a damage rider treated as a damage source. This means it will cause all of the Damage Riders listed above to activate a second time.
Calculating total damage:
To determine the total damage applied take each DS and DRS. Then apply the damage riders onto each of these. In this example that means one should evaluate the normal damage source of throwing a spear plus all damage riders, followed by the additional lightning damage from the Lightning Jabber with all damage riders applied again.
Treating the bonus lighting damage from throwing the Lightning Jabber as DRS' means the damage roll in the above scenario would on average yield 36 total damage (ignoring resistances) calculated as follows:
1d6 (3.5 avg) (weapon damage die) + 1 (weapon enchantment) + 5 (Strength modifier)
Piercing from the
Lightning Jabber thrown weapon attack, [DS]
+1d4 (2.5 avg)
Piercing damage from the
Ring of Flinging, [DR]
- +1
Lightning damage from , [DR]
+1d6 (3.5 avg)
Necrotic damage from , [DR]
- +5
Piercing damage damage from Tavern Brawler on a character with 20 Strength, [DR]
+1d4 (2.5 avg)
Lightning damage from the bonus effect of throwing the
Lightning Jabber, [DRS]
+1d4 (2.5 avg)
Piercing damage from the
Ring of Flinging, [DR]
- +1
Lightning damage from , [DR]
+1d6 (3.5 avg)
Necrotic damage from , [DR]
- +5
Piercing damage damage from Tavern Brawler on a character with 20 Strength, [DR]
As a hypothetical scenario to show the impact that this minor detail can have, instead imagine the bonus lighting damage from throwing the Lightning Jabber is treated as a DR in the above scenario. In this hypothetical scenario the above damage roll would yield 24 total damage on average (ignoring resistances) calculated as follows:
1d6 (3.5 avg) (weapon damage die) + 1 (weapon enchantment) + 5 (Strength modifier)
Piercing from the
Lightning Jabber thrown weapon attack, [DS]
+1d4 (2.5 avg)
Piercing damage from the
Ring of Flinging, [DR]
- +1
Lightning damage from , [DR]
+1d6 (3.5 avg)
Necrotic damage from , [DR]
- +5
Piercing damage damage from Tavern Brawler on a character with 20 Strength, [DR]
+1d4 (2.5 avg)
Lightning damage from the bonus effect of throwing the
Lightning Jabber in the hypothetical scenario where it is treated as a traditional damage rider [DR]
This is a simple example to demonstrate the underlying principles. By mixing and matching multiple DR and DRS effects it is possible to deal hundreds (and in extreme cases with proper conditions over thousands) of points of damage with a single attack.
DRS effects[edit | edit source]
The following are a list of items and abilities which have DRS effects, and what the relevant DRS effect is. Most of the below effects appear to instead be treated as normal damage riders for Honour mode difficulty, so the below tables should only be applied to other difficulty settings.
Item | Act Found | Relevant Effect | Notes |
---|---|---|---|
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All | Deals Weapon Damage + 2d4![]() ![]() |
N/a |
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All | Deals weapon damage + 2d4![]() ![]() |
N/a |
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All | Deals weapon damage + 2d4![]() ![]() |
N/a |
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All | Deals weapon damage + 2d4![]() |
N/a |
All | Spend 6 m / 20 ft of your movement to deal additional physical damage (minimum 1) on each successful weapon attack for the rest of the turn. | Weapon Action available to all Greataxes. Recharges on Short Rest | |
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One | Deathly Slumber: Deals an additional 1d4 ![]() |
N/a |
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One | Inflicts Shattered on hit. When attacking a Shattered target, deal an additional 1d4![]() |
N/a |
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One | Deals an additional 1d4![]() |
Can apply multiple times. |
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One | Deals an additional 1d6![]() |
N/a |
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One | Deals an additional 1d4![]() |
Can apply multiple times. |
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One | Revitalising Strike: Smash into a foe, wounding them and healing your own injuries. On a hit, heal 1d6![]() ![]() |
This is a weapon action specific to this weapon. As with all weapon actions, it recharges on a short rest. |
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One | Willing Whip: Grants Resistance to ![]() ![]() |
This damage does not benefit from many damage riders that are applied to the base weapon attack. For instance when used as part of a smite attack, bonus damage applied to spells is not applied to the damage caused by the willing whip ability. |
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One | Blood Sacrifice: Pain is a path to power. Take 1d4![]() |
Damage riders are applied to the self inflicted damage. |
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One | Break the Unbroken: Deal an additional 1d8![]() |
The target must be at full health. Only applies to attacks made with the weapon itself. |
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One | Lightning Blast: Once per Long Rest you may focus the electricity in your veins as a bonus action. Your next lightning spell or cantrip deals additional ![]() |
This is a usable once per long rest and only applies to Lightning Spells or cantrips. |
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One or Two | Gargantuan Cleave: Swing your weapon with all your might. You can attack multiple targets, but become . | This is a weapon action specific to this weapon. As with all weapon actions, it recharges on a short rest. |
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One | When the wielder has 50% ![]() ![]() |
N/a |
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One | All enemies within 6m of range have a 1d4 penalty to Charisma, Wisdom and Intelligence Saving Throws. Affected creatures receive an extra 1d4![]() |
This is a weapon action specific to this weapon. As with all weapon actions, it recharges on a short rest. |
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One | Soulbreaker: Rend the enemy's body and soul, dealing an additional 4![]() |
This is a weapon action specific to this weapon. As with all weapon actions, it recharges on a short rest. |
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Two | Throwing: Lighting Damage: When launched at a target, deal an additional 1d4![]() |
This is only works when thrown. |
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Two | When the wielder attacks with ![]() ![]() |
Only applies to attacks made with the weapon itself. |
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Two | Unnamed ability adds 1d6![]() |
DRS deals Piercing damage despite base weapon dealing Bludgeoning |
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Two | Moonlight Butterflies: Strike a foe, conjuring an illusory swarm of moon-pale butterflies, gaining ![]() ![]() ![]() |
This is a weapon action specific to this weapon. As with all weapon actions, it recharges on a short rest. |
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Two | Tippler's Rage: When you have the condition, you have ![]() ![]() |
This damage does not benefit from many damage riders that are applied to the base weapon attack. For instance when used as part of a smite attack, bonus damage applied to spells is not applied to the damage caused by the Tippler's Rage ability. |
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Two | Shadowsoaked Blow: Strike an enemy, adding your Proficiency Bonus to the damage. Moreover, if the attack hits, it also deals an additional 1d6![]() |
This is a weapon action specific to this weapon. As with all weapon actions, it recharges on a short rest. |
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Two | On a Critical Hit, the target takes an extra 10![]() |
The Life Stealing Critical passive is coded to only function when Sword of Life Stealing crits, even though the description appears to say it functions off any critical hit. |
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Three | Profane Scourge: Strike with subjugating fury, adding your Proficiency Bonus to the damage roll. If you hit a Fiend or Undead creature, deal an additional 2d6![]() |
This is a weapon action specific to this weapon. As with all weapon actions, it recharges on a short rest. This weapons special bonus damage vs undead and fiends is applied to both the weapons base damage and the damage applied by the Profane Scourge weapon action. |
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Three | Whenever you score a Critical Hit, deal an additional 1d6![]() |
N/a |
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Three | Your 1d4![]() |
deals an additional N/a |
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Three | Hellflame Cleave: Spew hellish flames and strike your foes. On Save: Targets still take half damage. Hellfire ignores Resistance and Immunity to ![]() |
This is a weapon action specific to this weapon. As with all weapon actions, it recharges on a short rest. This weapon action counts as a spell for effects that add bonus damage to spells. Bonus damage is applied to the base weapon damage and to the bonus fire damage separately. |
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Three | Dawnburst Strike: Deal additional ![]() |
This is a weapon action specific to this weapon. As with all weapon actions, it recharges on a short rest. |
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Three | Deal additional damage equal to your Proficiency Bonus. On a hit, Large, Huge, or Gargantuan creatures take an additional 2d6![]() |
This is a weapon action specific to this weapon. As with all weapon actions, it recharges on a short rest. |
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Three | (Only when wielded in main hand) When you make an attack with ![]() ![]() |
This applies for most damage sources in the base attack, It does not apply on some DRSs eg the ranger colossus slayer ability. |
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Three | (Only when wielded in main hand) On a hit with a melee weapon, use a reaction to deal additional ![]() |
N/a |
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Three | Zephyr Connection: This weapon will return to your hand when thrown. You cannot be forced to drop the trident. When thrown, the weapon creates an explosion that deals 3d4![]() |
This is only works when thrown.
This damage does not benefit from many damage riders that are applied to the base weapon attack. |
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One or Three | Soulbreaker: Rend the enemy's body and soul, dealing an additional 4![]() |
This is a weapon action specific to this weapon. As with all weapon actions, it recharges on a short rest. |
Class | Level
Obtained |
Relevant Effect | Notes |
---|---|---|---|
1 | Advantage against. You can also use Sneak Attack if you have an ally within 1.5m / 5ft of the target and you don't have Disadvantage.
|
: Deal an extra 1d6 damage to a foe you have Sneak Attack is only treated as a damage source if you use the automatic reaction. Using the Sneak Attack action is instead treated as a damage rider. | |
2 | 2d8![]() ![]() |
: Your weapon emanates divine might as you strike, dealing an additional N/a | |
3 | 1d8![]() |
: Once per turn, your weapon attack deals an extra This can be applied multiple times for each damage source in the portion of the attack that triggers it. This could include the entire attack or just portions of it. | |
8 | : Once per turn, deal 1d8 damage (damage type depends on Cleric Domain) in addition to your weapon's damage. | The 1d8![]() | |
11 | 3d8![]() |
: Teleport to a foe from a hidden position, striking them with the creeping, psychic ferocity of the shadows themselves, dealing an additional N/a | |
12 | Necrotic equal to your Charisma modifier. | : Your melee attacks deal additionalN/a |
Ability | Ability Type | Relevant Effect | Notes |
---|---|---|---|
Cantrip | Conjure a beam of crackling energy. Deals 1d10![]() |
Has a damage source per beam fired. | |
and | 1st Level Spell | Your attack summons thorny vines, dealing Weapon Damage and possibly your target.
Ensnared creatures cannot move and take 1d6 |
Ensnaring Strike allows spell based bonus damage to ride along with weapon based damage riders as sources. Most damage riders do not apply to the ongoing damage. |
1st Level Spell | Shoot a volley of thorns. They deal weapon damage![]() ![]() |
The initial hit and explosion are separate damage sources. | |
1st Level Spell | Mark a creature as your quarry to deal an additional 1d6![]() |
Only when used with thrown weapon attacks. | |
1st Level Spell | Throw a shard of ice that deals 1d10![]() ![]() ![]() |
The Piercing and Cold Damage are separate damage sources. | |
1st Level Spell | Create three darts of magical force, each dealing 1d4 + 1![]() |
Each dart fired is a separate damage sources. | |
1st Level Spell | Your weapon flares with white-hot intensity. It deals, on top of weapon damage, an extra 1d6![]() A target with Searing Smite takes 1d6 |
The weapon damage and extra fire damage are separate damage sources. Searing Smite allows spell based bonus damage to ride along with weapon based damage riders as sources. Most damage riders do not apply to the ongoing damage. | |
1st Level Spell | Your weapon rings with thunder as you strike, pushing your target ![]() ![]() |
The weapon damage and extra thunder damage are separate damage sources. Thunderous Smite allows spell based bonus damage to ride along with weapon based damage riders as sources. | |
1st Level Spell | Link yourself to a target with a bolt of lightning. Deal an additional 1d12![]() |
The additional activations apply most damage riders and are a separate damage source. | |
1st Level Spell | Your weapon absorbs your wrath as you strike, possibly your target. In addition, your weapon deals an additional 1d6![]() |
The weapon damage and extra psychic damage are separate damage sources. Wrathful Smite allows spell based bonus damage to ride along with weapon based damage riders as sources. | |
2nd Level Spell | Your weapon gleams with astral radiance as you strike and possibly mark your targets with light, preventing it from turning . In addition, your weapon deals an additional 2d6![]() |
The weapon damage and extra radiant damage are separate damage sources. Branding Smite allows spell based bonus damage to ride along with weapon based damage riders as sources. | |
2nd Level Spell | Cause a metal Weapon or Armour to glow red-hot and force the creature touching it to let go or receive ![]() ![]() If the creature is still touching the metal, you can use a Bonus Action on subsequent turns to to deal another 2d8 |
The additional activations apply most damage riders and are a separate damage source. | |
2nd Level Spell | Hurl 3 rays of fire. Each ray deals 2d6![]() |
Each ray is a separate damage source. | |
3rd Level Spell | Evoke a heavenly flare and possibly your target. In addition, your weapon deals an additional 3d8![]() |
The weapon damage and extra radiant damage are separate damage sources. Blinding Smite allows spell based bonus damage to ride along with weapon based damage riders as sources. | |
3rd Level Spell | Call down lightning to hit all targets within range and its area of effect for 3d10![]() |
The additional activations apply most damage riders and are a separate damage source. | |
3rd Level Spell | This spell allows spellcasters to fire an arrow of electricity that bursts on impact, dealing additional Lightning damage to creatures in the vicinity. | The initial hit and explosion are separate damage sources. | |
4th Level Spell | Impel a storm of hail and ice to crash from the sky, covering the ground and striking all objects and creatures within range, dealing ![]() ![]() ![]() |
The Bludgeoning and Cold damage are separate damage sources. | |
5th Level Spell | Summon the apparitions of 6 master strategists. Each apparition strikes a target of your choosing, dealing 2d6 + 6![]() ![]() |
Each of the six apparitions is a separate damage source. | |
5th Level Spell | Create a shockwave of either divine or malevolent thunder that damages nearby creatures and possibly knocks them . This spell deals 5d6 ![]() ![]() ![]() |
The Thunder and Radiant or Necrotic damage are separate damage sources. | |
5th Level Spell | This spells allows the caster to make a pillar of divine flame at a chosen location dealing 5d6 ![]() ![]() |
The Fire and Radiant damage are separate damage sources. | |
6th Level Spell | This spell allows spellcasters to project a beam of light, Blinding and dealing 6d8 ![]() |
The additional activations apply most damage riders and are a separate damage source. |
Technical details[edit | edit source]
The scripts defining all the effects in the game are found in .txt
files inside Gustav.pak
and Shared.pak
. (See Modding:Unpacking and converting files). In these scripts, damage rider effects are implemented with one of several damage functions. These are:
WeaponDamage()
,CharacterWeaponDamage()
, andCharacterUnarmedDamage()
:
The basic, well-behaved damage bonuses are implemented with this function. The bonus will apply only to the triggering attack, and nothing else.
Example effect: 2Acid from Caustic Band.
DamageBonus()
:
Damage riders using this function will apply their bonus damage to each independent damage instance. When combined with damage riders usingDealDamage()
(see below), a single attack can create numerous independent damage instances. In these cases,DamageBonus()
will apply its bonus damage multiple times, butWeaponDamage()
only once.
Example effect: 2Radiant from Callous Glow Ring.
DealDamage()
:
This function is used by all damaging attacks, spells, and status effects to apply their damage. It is also used by "damage riders treated as damage sources" to apply their bonus damage. It creates a separate damage instance that can be independently boosted by applicableDamageBonus()
effects. Furthermore, damage riders usingDealDamage()
can trigger each other in some cases, creating far more damage instances than might be expected.
Example effect: 1d8Physical from Colossus Slayer.
Each of these functions can optionally specify the damage type. If not specified, the damage type will be inherited from the triggering DealDamage()
instance.
Potential bugs[edit | edit source]
The following items compose a non-exhaustive list which indicates that the "Damage Riders" as compared to "Damage Riders treated as Damage Sources" may include several bugs and therefore many of these abilities may change in future patches:
- Patch 3 changed Lightning Charges from a "Damage Rider treated as a Damage Source" to a "Damage Rider."
- Patch 5's patch-notes mention a change to Tavern Brawler in regards to thrown weapons, likely intending to change it from a "Damage Rider treated as a Damage Source" to a "Damage Rider" - in fact no change was made. Instead, Dwarven Thrower, Lightning Jabber, and Hunter's Mark were updated in a comparable manner, leaving them still able to trigger certain other DRS-effects while not applying Damage Riders themselves.
- Sneak Attack is treated as a Damage Rider when a character uses the Sneak Attack action, but as a "Damage Rider treated as a Damage Source" when Sneak Attack is applied by the automatic reaction system.