Talk:Races

a typo in the blue dragon born subrace

In the blue dragon born sub race the cone breath attack is a line breath attack but the game has a typo in it that says that it is a cone attack — unsigned comment by 216.56.128.66 (talk) 2023.12.20

Hi! Fixed, thanks! T-Furan (talk) 16:04, 20 December 2023 (CET)

The note about these being species is objectively false

Currently, the page notes "Note: Baldur's Gate 3 does not use the term "race" the way it's used in common English. Races in the game are more akin to species.". That is not objective data for a Wiki. It is objectively false in the Forgotten Realms: these Humanoid races can reproduce between each other, including Elf/Orc for example, you name it (it is not as clear for Halfings and Gnomes though). Dwarf/Human or Dwarf/Orc is also possible, though some older books made them sterile, they are a viable mixed heritage in the Forgotten Realms (source). Whereas species generally do not reproduce well together and have less "mixity".

The company Wizard of the Coast switched to the term species because the term race is loaded with real-life issues. Calling them species is oddly not a progress nor better at all: not only is reproduction sometimes impossible between species, or generate children who cannot reproduce, but having only "pure" Elves, in reaction to the fact that the term "half-Elf" can be pejorative, is ironically not a progress. WotC flushed mixed origins in the 2024 revision: how is that a progress? Valuing mixed heritages, and offering the option, would be the true progressive approach! (especially in a multiverse where rules can vary between spheres of existence) Such as the common Elf/Human mixed heritages (and not using the term half-Elf). The solution to avoid both those terms (race and species) is well known from many RPG games, who instead write heritages, mixed heritages, origins, etc.

Reminder: in real life, there is only one single Human race (Homo Sapiens) and species (scientific consensus). Physical differences between regions are actually called phenotypes as they are superficial. The deeper differences are cultural.

Anyhow, back to the topic of BG3 : they are logically races of the Humanoid species (not super clearly stated, but we know they can reproduce), though the lore of their origins can be very different. You can therefore imagine why that note should probably be removed.

--Baraz (talk) 04:02, 14 October 2024 (CEST)

It is not "objectively false", because

• first, the term "race" is sadly still used in English as if there were human races, for example by the american government: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States_census
• second, there are many other "races" in the game, which are clearly species, for example the "races" of the type "Beast". Cats, Dogs, Birds, Bears and so on are not "races" but species.

Hawkeye (talk) 04:26, 14 October 2024 (CEST)

Hello.

You misundersood my points I think. The topic are the playable races in BG3/D&D (topic of this wiki page) and, more precisely, a note at the top of the page claiming that the correct term would be species. So I am not sure why you mention birds and dogs in response to my explanation that most playable heritages are races that can breed together. I of course would agree with the note about species if we could play bears, birds and cats (and, no, Wildshape does not count at character birth). :P  Gnomes and Dragonborn though seem to be different species, but it is not 100% clear, which is fine in a multiverse where rules can vary between worlds.

I know the term race is widely used for Humans in real-life, which is why I commonly remind everyone there is one single Human race according to what is considered a scientific consensus. Note that, in D&D, Human subgroups or heritages are not called races: they are called ethnic groups on the Forgotten Realms wiki for example. They call Elves a different race for example, who can breed with Humans. In the Forgotten Realms, the playable races are really races of Humanoids (with some exceptions). That said, I am fine with RPGs using different terms, as I explain above. BUT the term species is really not better nor very accurate. - Baraz (talk) 04:41, 14 October 2024 (CEST)

The topic are not playable races but all races in Baldur's Gate 3. This article is about all races, although its focus is on the playable races. And the note at the beginnung is about all uses of the term `race` in the game not just those about playable races. Hawkeye (talk) 09:49, 14 October 2024 (CEST)

OK. I see. True technically about this page.

Also, I checked, and it is true that creatures in BG3 have a label called Race... which surprised me. The first page of the Examine view (right-clicking a creature) just names the overall category (like "Humanoid - Lolth-sworn Drow"), but there is another tab (less visible) that does use the label Race...

So I guess the note is true then. Baraz (talk) 22:25, 14 October 2024 (CEST)